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Godfree Roberts's avatar

Given China's radical, creative and successful approach(es) to such matters, I am surprised that we see so little discussion of the country in this context.

Are our scholars being discouraged from studying the Middle Kingdom?

Lynne Kiesling's avatar

Godfrey, in my case it’s because I disagree with you about China and infrastructure. The benefit of being able to move quickly is far outweighed by the debt overhang, the empty cities, all of the evidence of wasteful spending that is a consequence of the fatal conceit of central planning.

Godfree Roberts's avatar

There is no 'debt overhang'. ROI on the HSR system is 8%, according to early investor, the IMF.

There are no empty cities. There were cities – like Xiong An New Area today – waiting for people to move in when jobs and schools and parks and buses were working. Today, they've all moved in and the cities are booming.

There is zero evidence of wasteful spending.

China does some broad-brush central planning and it has always worked.

Robert L Borlick's avatar

"Thus, for example, the owner of an apartment with complete property rights to the apartment has the right to determine whether to rent it out and, if so, which tenant to rent to; ...."

So this gives the owner the right to discriminate against people of color, religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity? Lynn, are you seriously suggesting that this is a good idea?

I'm a staunch supporter of economic efficiency and market mechanisms but I also believe that a society collectively needs to look at market outcomes with jaundiced eye and decide whether it likes what it sees.

Markets are agnostic and amoral. They may (or may not) produce outcomes that are efficient but markets have no conscience. It is naive to believe that whatever outcome a market produces is necessarily good,

Sorry, but Hayek was wrong.

Lynne Kiesling's avatar

Robert, this is Alchian, not Hayek, and I think you are reading far, far too much into his statement. As a first-generation American and child of Armenian immigrants who moved here in the early 20th century, Alchian was no advocate of anything violating the rule of law. A well-crafted rule of law includes prohibitions against discrimination. Alchian's comment is in the context of pervasive urban rent control, a distortionary and counterproductive policy that he saw close-hand as a long-time resident of Los Angeles. Your inference says more about your preconceptions that it does about Alchian's statement.

Robert L Borlick's avatar

Good response. Then you agree that government has o useful role to play in selectively constraining laissez-faire market outcomes?

Lynne Kiesling's avatar

Thank you Jacob, this is really great!

Jacob Edenhofer's avatar

Thanks - also for restacking

Robert L Borlick's avatar

Doesn’t this also apply to global warming? China and India are consuming the world’s capacity to absorb greenhouse gases.