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Patrick R Sullivan's avatar

"Liberty works when people recognize that independence doesn’t eliminate dependence on others. Through local government, political participation, and the civil associations that sustain them, Americans learn what Tocqueville calls the “science of association”, which is how free and equal people can act together without ceasing to be either."

The motto of the high school I went to was: 'Democracy begins with self-control.' Which today seems to have been forgotten.

Natalia Panchieri 🇪🇺's avatar

I found this really interesting — especially the idea of association as a kind of social technology that builds capacities people would otherwise lack. I did wonder, though, whether the relationship between association and the state can sometimes be more complicated than substitution or crowding out.

Thinking especially of corporations and business associations in Italy — historically, for example, under Fascism — it seems that organized private actors and the state can be simultaneously cooperative and competitive. Firms and associations may depend on the state for regulation, enforcement, infrastructure, protection, etc., while the state in turn relies on them for information, coordination, implementation, and productive capacity. So rather than simply displacing one another, they can end up co-producing governance while bargaining over its terms and over how much autonomy each retains.

In that sense, I wonder whether “coopetition” — or some form of conflictual interdependence — might complement the Tocquevillian crowding-out story. The state can weaken associational capacity, certainly, but it can also organize, incorporate, privilege, or rely upon associations in ways that make the boundary between public and private collective action much less clear.

Then again, I might be biased by Italian history 😊 There is most likely an element of path dependence and cultural milieu at play here as well.

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